Arcteryx's Therme and Camosun are their second and third warmest parkas coming after the warmest Thorsen. All these jackets are designed for walking around town when it's freezing out (so called "line 24").
You can see this in Arc'teryx naming scheme at arcteryx.com as well.
In summary, if the subject temperature range is mostly going to be somewhere between 0 - 15 deg F (-18 - -10 deg C), then both Therme and Camosun would be warm enough. Maybe also consider underlayer getting a good Arc'teryx base layer for more inclement days.
You'd probably overheat inside the Thorsen at these temperature ranges. So consider it for lower ranges: around 5 deg F (-15 deg C) and below.
- Some of the Arc pieces you see in this post might be discontinued, and hence might be unavailable at arcteryx.com.
- If that's the case, then I'd recommend you to check out this page at REI. You might be able to find them there.
Let's get to it.
All 3 jackets use the same 750 fill power European goose down (which is top notch quality - read more about it here if you're curious).
- October 2022: DropHood vs StormHood: Pros/cons and best uses
- September 2022: Reviewing Arc'teryx Fall Winter 22/23 Gear
- August 2022: 5 things all Arc'teryx newbies should know
- July 2022: Explained, compared & plotted: CLO values of insulated jackets
- #A sidenote here: Arcteryx.com's PDF guide to their jackets is GOOOLLDDD. Highly recommend you to check it out before you buy.
- Thorsen is equipped with the highest amount of down (192 grams) and hence the warmest.
- Therme is the second warmest with 120 grams of down.
- Camosun is the third - it has 105 grams of down.
For their exact warmth ratings, you can check out the chart below:
|Name||Est. Temp (F/C)||Insulation||Review|
|Arc'teryx Alpha Parka (Men's - Women's)||-17/-27||Down||Down||No||M|
|Feathered Friends Khumbu (Men's)||-17/-27||Down||Down||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Ceres SV (Men's - Women's)||-15/-26||Down||Down||Review||Yes||M|
|Mountain Equipment K7 (Men's - Women's)||-13/-25||Down||Down||No||M|
|Rab Positron Pro (Men's - Women's)||-13/-25||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Patagonia Grade VII (Men's)||-11/-24||Down||Down||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Firebee AR (Men's - Women's)||-10/-23||Down||Down||Review||Yes||M W|
|Mountain Equipment Exo (Men's)||-10/-23||Down||Down||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Thorsen (Men's)||-7/-22||Down||ParkaD||Review||No||M|
|Patagonia Frozen Range (Men's - Women's)||-6/-21||Down||ParkaD||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Centrale (Women's)||-5/-20||Down||ParkaD||Review||No||W|
|Rab Neutrino Pro (Men's - Women's)||-2/-19||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Therme (Men's)||-2/-19||Down||ParkaD||Review||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Dually Belay (Men's)||0/-18||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||Yes||M|
|Arc'teryx Camosun (Men's)||0/-18||Down||ParkaD||Review||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Piedmont (Men's)||2/-17||Down||ParkaD||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Fission SV (Men's - Women's)||3/-16||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M|
|Outdoor Research Super Alpine (Men's - Women's)||3/-16||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Patagonia Tres 3-in-1 (Men's - Women's)||3/-16||Down||ParkaD||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Radsten (Men's)||3/-16||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||M|
|Patagonia Fitz Roy (Men's - Women's)||3/-16||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Rab Electron Pro (Men's - Women's)||5/-15||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Macai (Men's||5/-15||Down||Down||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Nuclei SV Parka (Men's - Women's)||5/-15||Synthetic||Synthetic||No||M W|
|Patagonia DAS Parka (Men's - Women's)||5/-15||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Patera (Women's)||5/-15||Down||ParkaD||Review||No||W|
|Arc'teryx Cerium SV (Men's - Women's)||7/-14||Down||Down||Review||Yes||M W|
|Black Diamond Access Down (Men's - Women's)||7/-14||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Kappa (Men's - Women's)||7/-14||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||Yes||M|
|Arc'teryx Prema (Women's)||7/-14||Down||ParkaD||No||W|
|Arc'teryx Radsten Insulated Men's)||7/-14||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||M|
|Rab Microlight Alpine (Men's - Women's)||7/-14||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Patagonia Macro Puff (Men's - Women's)||8/-13||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M W|
|Feathered Friends Eos (Men's - Women's)||8/-13||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Macai LT (Men's)||8/-13||Down||Down||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Seyla (Women's)||8/-13||Down||ParkaD||No||W|
|Arc'teryx Koda (Men's)||8/-13||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Thorium AR (Men's - Women's)||8/-13||Down||Down||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Kole (Men's - Women's)||10/-12||Down||ParkaD||No||W|
|Patagonia Vosque 3-in-1 (Women's)||10/-12||Synthetic||ParkaS||Review||No||W|
|Arc'teryx Alpha IS (Men's - Women's)||12/-11||Synthetic||Synthetic||Yes||M|
|Patagonia Jackson Glacier (Men's - Women's)||12/-11||Down||ParkaD||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Sensa (Women's)||14/-10||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||W|
|Patagonia Hi Loft Down (Men's - Women's )||14/-10||Down||Down||Review||No||M|
|REI Magma 850 Hoodie 2.0 (Men's - Women's)||14/-10||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Atom AR (Men's - Women's)||18/-8||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M W|
|Patagonia Downdrift (Men's - Women's)||18/-8||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Patagonia Down Sweater (Men's - Women's)||19/-7||Down||Down||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Magnus (Men's)||19/-7||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Agrium (Men's - Women's)||21/-6||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Patagonia AlpLight Down (Men's - Women's)||21/-6||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Patagonia Topley (Men's)||23/-5||Down||Down||No||M|
|Rab Xenon 2.0 (Men's - Women's)||23/-5||Synthetic||Synthetic||No||M W|
|Patagonia Silent Down (Men's - Women's)||26/-3||Down||Down||Review||No||M W|
|Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisp/2 (Men's - Women's)||28/-2||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Cerium LT (Men's - Women's)||28/-2||Down||Down||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Nuclei FL (Men's - Women's)||32/0||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M W|
|Patagonia City Storm Down (Men's)||32/0||Down||ParkaD||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Atom LT (Men's - Women's)||36/2||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M W|
|Patagonia Micro Puff (Men's - Women's)||36/2||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M W|
|Patagonia Isthmus (Men's||36/2||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Proton LT (Men's - Women's)||37/3||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M W|
|Patagonia Nano Puff (Men's - Women's)||37/3||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Norvan SL Ins. (Men's - Women's)||39/4||Synthetic||Synthetic||Yes||M W|
|Patagonia Nano Air (Men's - Women's)||41/5||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Cerium SL (Men's - Women's)||43/6||Down||Down||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Proton FL (Men's - Women's)||48/9||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||No||M W|
|Arc'teryx Atom SL (Men's - Women's)||52/11||Synthetic||Synthetic||Review||Yes||M W|
|The North Face Summit Down (Men's - Women's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Mountain Equipment Lightline Echo (Men's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M|
|Mountain Equipment Kryos (Men's - Women's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Mountain Equipment Xeros (Men's - Women's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M|
|Arc'teryx Andra LT IS (Women's)||Testing||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||W|
|Arc'teryx Phoria IS (Women's)||Testing||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||W|
|Feathered Friends Helios (Men's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M|
|Feathered Friends Volant (Men's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M|
|Rab Axion Pro (Men's - Women's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Feathered Friends Rock & Ice (Men's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M|
|Rab Valiance (Men's - Women's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M W|
|Rab Expedition 8000 (Men's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M|
|Rab Zero G (Men's)||Testing||Down||Down||No||M|
|Rab Generator Alpine (Men's)||Testing||Synthetic||Synthetic||No||M|
|UBR Regulator Parka II (Men's)||Testing||Synthetic||ParkaS||No||M|
|Helly Hansen LifaLoft (Men's - Women's)||Testing||Synthetic||Synthetic||No||M|
|Mammut Eigerjoch (Men's - Women's)||Testing||Synthetic||Synthetic||No||M W|
|Helly Hansen Lumines (Men's - Women's)||Unknown||Synthetic||Synthetic||No||M|
|Haglofs V Series Mimic (Men's - Women's)||Unknown||Synthetic||Synthetic||No||M W|
|Black Diamond First Light (Men's - Women's)||Unknown||Synthetic||Synthetic||No||M W|
If you're confused now and don't know which jacket best corresponds to your own needs, then follow the advice given below:
The temperature ratings in this list represent the lowest temperatures you can wear each jacket without feeling uncomfortably cold.
Keep in mind that these are only approximate values, assuming:
- worn over a shirt only and no shell over,
- during daily use (strolls, power walks etc at most - no high output activities),
- with light wind,
- and when it's dry out.
These values applicable to your torso only. Your hands, legs and feet are still subject to their own additional insulation.
The best practice is usually to use this table for comparing each jacket to one another, rather than pinpointing their ratings.
Also, ratings will best respond to males. As most women tend to run colder than men, for women, shifting these ratings a bit is recommended.
Lastly, always opt for the warmer option when in doubt.
- Thorsen has the longest hemline (36 inches), falls almost to the knees.
- Therme is a bit shorter at mid thigh (33 inches), and it comes with a boxier "relaxed" fit which is called "regular fit".
- Camosun is the shortest (31.5 inches) - just a bit lower than waist. It has the trimmest fitting.
They're all equipped with Gore-Tex, so the wind is 100% blocked.
Revision to the Therme:
- Redesign includes updated style lines for a more relaxed fit, a two-way WaterTight Vislon zipper with a snap placket, and synthetically insulated hood and neck gasket for additional warmth.
Revision to the Camosun:
- Redesign includes updated style lines for a more refined aesthetic.
The information given in this post applies both to the most recent (2020) and the previous versions of Therme and Camosun.
So what should you consider when getting either one of these jackets?
If the lowest temperature you'll face won't be much colder than 15 deg F (-10 deg C)
In other words, if you'll be in Milwaukee, Toronto, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Boston, NYC, or any other similar temperature range city; then both Therme and Camosun would feel warm enough for around 90% of the winter.
For the remainder of the winter, you can easily use another simple fleece underneath either of these jackets. And I don't mean something high-quality like Arc'teryx either, even a t-shirt + hoody combo would work.
Therme and Camosun: Warmth difference
The difference is minimal, but not non-existent. If you feel fairly cold inside a Camosun, I'd doubt Therme would solve your warmth problems in the same setting. But still, there are things you'd better consider.
I put together the things you should consider regarding the warmth differences between these two jackets under 3 main subheadings.
Compared to Therme, the Camosun is going to be more restrictive when you're trying to layer due to its trimmer fit. It might feel less comfortable if you try layering with a bulky synthetic insulated jacket beneath, such as Atom AR.
Part of the extra down in Therme (120 vs 105 grams) you see in the product specs results from Therme's 1.5 inch longer hemline. It naturally requires more down. It'll cover a larger portion of your hips - which can be especially important if you don't have or aren't planning to get insulated pants.
Also, even when you ignore the Therme's extra hem length, it still uses a little bit more down than the Camosun - hence a bit more warmth.
3- Traps more air
Baggier cut doesn't necessarily mean that it'll provide more insulation than a more snug cut in every situation. It's contextual and depends on many factors such as how baggy or snug the jackets are, their fill quality (fill power), lengths etc.
But in our case, Therme isn't too baggy to let the air circulate too much and hence let the cold air in. It doesn't use a lower quality fill either.
So, since more insulation is always achieved by trapping more "heated" air, in the end, Therme provides a bit more warmth.
As you see, the warmth difference is there, but it isn't as big to make you pretty much ignore other stuff. I'd pay at least as much attention to style, hood and personal layering needs.
I'd recommend you to check out my Therme Parka review as well.
If you're fit or thin, Camosun's trimmer cut might look better on you.
Baggier cut of Therme benefits you in warmth, as I explained earlier in this post, and this is how the baggier cut looks:
Proceed at your own taste...
Camosun's hood is detachable (separate hood) and that of Therme's isn't (integrated hood). This difference in hood construction naturally causes their collar configurations to differ as well.
Camosun's collar is always up, whereas for the Therme the hood should be in use for collar to be standing up straight.
Higher collar is typically expected to block more wind, and I'm not saying this is incorrect. But even when the Therme's hood isn't in use (e.g collar isn't standing), you can still zip it upwards and raise it to a position that's as high as that of the Camosun's:
Still, though, it won't feel as comfortable as the Camosun's collar. This is why they're both equally great in terms of blocking wind when the hood isn't in use, but Camosun is more comfortable.
On the other hand, when you need more wind protection, Therme's collar will reach up higher when the hood is in use:
If you can picture some situations where you'd prefer the hood removed, then that obviously is going to be an another advantage for the Camosun.
What about the Outer Shell Differences?
Thorsen offers a 90D, Therme a 75D and Camosun a whooping 150D outer shell fabric.
This means that the Camosun will feel burliest and Therme the smoothest in your hands. But most importantly, all of them are very durable.
Why does Arc'teryx's site state windproof for Therme and not for Camosun?
Product information on Arcteryx's site is often misleading. I can give you a thousand examples, but even in our current case you can see that the Coreloft density is left unfilled for the Therme. It is, however, equipped with it.
For windproof; all Camosun, Therme and Thorsen jackets are 100% windproof because of their high quality Gore-Tex membrane. There's nothing you should worry about.
That's all you should know about the Therme and Camosun so far.
Now enter my friend Thorsen - and let's get to its review.
It's important to note that the Thorsen would probably come too warm for the above temperature range and set-up. Vast majority of people would likely overheat in it (unless they run quite cold). Because it's designed for freezing temperatures.
...so if you'll be facing a considerable amount of colder days
Say, if you'll be facing as low as 5 deg F (-15 deg C) and below (Montreal, etc), then I'd recommend getting either:
- Therme or Camosun (but probably Therme - read below paragraph) AND a good fleece under (such as this one of Arc'teryx) for extra layering (Therme and Camosun alone probably wouldn't be enough to keep you very warm at this cold),
- The Thorsen (this color is really liked by many - including me).
If you choose to go with option #1, again, it's good to note that Camosun is going to be more restrictive in this situation due to its trimmer fit. I'd probably get the Therme and reap the extra warmth benefits as well.
Although the temperature differences between the Therme and Camosun are minimal, this isn't the case for Thorsen. It's significantly warmer than both of these jackets.
For the vast majority of people, even if you layer Therme or Camosun with another synthetic insulated jacket (such as one of these) they still won't feel as warm as Thorsen by itself.
This is actually stated by the Arc'teryx staff themselves:
In short, if you want to maximize warmth, Thorsen is the way to go for you. But if you have more $$$ to spare, then layering would give you more versatility. Proceed with your personal needs and desires.
Lastly, all these jackets are DWR coated - which means that they repel water just fine.
DWR is a coating.
It's basically sprayed on to the surface of these jackets as a finish. It stands for Durable Water Repellent - which means that water will be repelled under wet conditions instead of soaking into the fabric.
DWR also decreases dry time.
It's a good thing these jackets are coated in DWR, but pay attention to the fact that DWR is a coating - meaning that it will wear off over time.
Which is why you might want to invest in a DWR spray such as this one for after treatment.
As you see, there's a strong correlation between FP x FW and temperature ratings, but not more than, say, 80%. I explained why this happens here in this post of mine.
If you're interested, here are the product videos: