Arc’teryx Firebee AR vs Ceres SV

Ceres SV and Firebee AR once were Arc'teryx's first and second warmest pieces. 

They remain discontinued for FW24 too. 

For Ceres SV, which is a hybrid jacket (down & synthetic insulation), Arc'teryx brought its alternative, the Alpha Parka (Men's - Women's - read review). It's solid and probably one of the best freezing weather jackets of all time. 

For Firebee AR, however, it's another story. It's solely a down jacket. No synthetic insulation whatsoever. 

Arc'teryx has never really been known with their highest quality down jackets. Rather, they're popular for their synthetic insulated jackets and hardshell/softshell jackets. 

When it's cold, like really cold, precipitation isn't the thing that you worry about. Below 0 deg C, rain won't happen anyway. Which is where down jackets come to play and fill the need. 

By simply leaving synthetic insulation out of a jacket, you don't only ensure a much lower weight but you also provide a much smaller packed size.

When packed, Firebee AR had stuffed into half the size of Ceres SV. It was impressive and it was also cited on each related page on Arc'teryx's own site as well. 

In FW24 catalogue the closest you get to Firebee AR is not so close. It's the Thorium (Men's - Women's - read review).

I however also think that Arc'teryx will bring back Cerium SV in a few days. Which is much closer to Firebee AR.

They only have to deal with naming scheme changes, especially after changing Cerium SL to Cerium Lightweight and Cerium LT to Cerium. Cerium SV will probably be Cerium Heavyweight, just like other lines such as Atom and Proton. 

Firebee AR and Ceres SV can still worth getting even after years of use, when found at a lower price. This guide will help you decide. 

• Fit

I'm 5'11", 165 lbs, athletic build. Size M fits me perfectly. 

My size is always the same. Arc'teryx, Patagonia, TNF, Salomon, Columbia, Nike, Adidas, Under Armour, Zara... Doesn't matter. 

• Arc'teryx's 2024 men's fit revision

Straight from arcteryx.com on what's changed: 

Source: https://arcteryx.com/us/en/help/sizing/mens/tops/new

Not all jackets come with revised fit. Only the ones with following statement. 

• Poll

Which Arc'teryx fit do you prefer?

Legacy fit

Revised fit

• Poll

Which cuff type do you like more?

Stretch gusset cuffs

Stretch knit cuffs

First thing you should know about them is that they're NOT designed for high output activities (skiing, climbing, cycling, etc.) since you'd overheat very easily (unless you run unusually cold - which I'd highly doubt). 

They're designed for mostly stationary use out in extreme colds where you would not encounter wet conditions (ie. rain, snow) and where packability is a concern: Hiking, camping, traveling, ice fishing, etc. 

In summary, if packability is almost as important as warmth for you, then the Firebee could be a better option. If packability is not that important, but still a must have, than the Ceres is more suitable.

If you'll be wearing your jacket only casually when it's freezing out in town and hence don't care about packability at all...

Then I'd surprise you and recommend the Therme SV (Men's - read review) or Patera (Women's - read review) instead.

Both Firebee and Ceres are equipped with 850-fill down (highest quality) insulation and also supported with synthetic insulation in addition (for extra wet weather performance).

But the amounts as to how much they're stuffed with them differ, which is an equally important factor that defines the warmth:

• Ceres SV is equipped with 240 grams of down.
• Firebee AR is equipped with 225 grams of down.

Also...

• Ceres offers a quite long hemline (34 inches). Falls almost to the knees.
• Firebee is shorter at 31.25 inches - just a bit lower than waist.

Extra length in Ceres is one of the causes of its extra down, but even without the extra material, the amount of its down would still outnumber that of Firebee.

Warmth in practice

Generally speaking, with only a long sleeved shirt under and without a shell on top, during daily use (strolls, power walks, etc) and with enough wind to cause an umbrella to twist in your hand...

...the lowest temperature an average person could wear them without feeling uncomfortably cold would be as low as -15 deg F (-26 deg C) for Ceres SV and around -10 deg F (-23 deg C) for Firebee AR.

If you run colder or warmer than the average person, then shift these temperatures accordingly.

This level of warmth is exceptional, which is the reason for staggering price tags.

The single warmer product you can find out there would be something ridiculously high-tech like the Cold WX Parka SVX from Arc'teryx's LEAF Program.

Gore-Tex Thermium vs Windstopper

Gore Thermium of Firebee will perform quite similarly to the Gore Windstopper of Ceres (same Gore membrane technology) - the only difference being that the Thermium is fully seam sealed whereas some Windstopper pieces are sewn through seams.

In practice, this means that the Firebee will be more weather resistant and it'll let less moisture inside.

Then again neither of these Parkas are meant to be used under rain or snow anyway, so the difference isn't big to say the least.

Now back to warmth, realistically speaking, Ceres and Firebee is actually as good as jackets and parkas get in terms of warmth, as I explained a minute ago.

Bu there's one important caveat to note here.

Warmth distribution

Both the Firebee and Ceres come with their own stuff sacks. Manufacturing them "packable" like this requires sacrificing from distributing the warmth evenly throughout your body.

In addition to that, the Firebee is not only packable, but also a lot more packable than the Ceres. It's equivalent to the packed size of a summer sleeping bag - which is HALF the packed size of the Ceres!

Since this makes the problem even worse for Firebee, Arc'teryx incorporated "3D Down Contour Construction" in Firebee's design process.

...although it kind of backfired.

It was supposed to distribute the total amount of down more efficiently throughout the jacket rather than using a uniform distribution like that of Ceres.

BUT, as you might also already had understood from my language, this failed to side-track this problem in practice. In the end, lower arm region of the Firebee's in the market ended up providing a little bit less warmth than intended.

So, when you think about the staggering price tag of this parka, Arc'teryx might have crossed the "acceptable flaws" line with this mistake for some people.

It's still a fantastic parka and it's incredible how much of attention has been paid even to the really minimal details (pleasant collar, StormHood, mesh vents at very well-thought out strategic locations such as some portion of the hood and the arm pits).

It's just that it's mostly expected to be flawless at this price range.

If this is a deal-breaker for you, then layering Cerium SV (read review) and Atom AR (read review) together could work as a somewhat "equivalent" combo and be a good alternative to the Firebee.

It'd also provide more versatility since wearing Ceres, Firebee or Thorsen as standalone pieces would come too warm when it's anything warmer than 15 deg F (-10 deg C) out. Whereas you can wear your Atom AR alone when it's up to 30 deg F (0 deg C) without overheating.

The downside of layering, on the other hand, would be the hassle comes up with layering when you're changing from indoors to outdoors constantly and vice versa.

For Ceres SV, this uneven warmth distribution is experienced significantly less although still not completely non-existent like the Thorsen (more on Thorsen in a minute).

Face Fabric

Face fabric of Ceres (Arato 30) is heavier and more sturdy than that of the Firebee (Arato 7 & 10).

But, compared to the Firebee’s face properties, it doesn't feel as smooth in your hands, although is more durable and resists more strongly against abrasion.

Also, they're both DWR coated, which helps with beading water. 

So, since some sacrifices are being made for making a parka "packable" in return...

If you aren't planning to pack your parka, I'd also check out Therme SV (Men's - read review) or Patera (Women's - read review). Unlike Ceres and Firebee, these aren't packable, and hence distributes warmth more evenly.

Another case where you'd better getting one of these and not a Firebee or Ceres would be wet conditions. Firebee and Ceres use Gore-Tex Windstopper Shell, which protects you from high winds perfectly.

But when it rains or snows, not only it let relatively more water and moisture in; but also the down gets soaked, which causes the parka to lose its insulating power. In the end, the warmth suffers - although less so than we'd typically experience with other down insulated clothing pieces such as the Thorium and Cerium.

The reason for this is strategically placed synthetic insulation in both Firebee's and Ceres's constructions.