patagonia

Best Patagonia Winter Jacket

Last updated: July 14, 2022 by Canberk Koksal 6 Comments

	Frozen Range Parka	City Storm Parka	Tres 3-in-1 Parka	Jackson Glacier Jacket	Macro Puff Jacket
MSRP	699 USD	499 USD	599 USD	349 USD	399 USD
Cell	Frozen Range Parka	City Storm Parka	Tres 3-in-1 Parka	Jackson Glacier Jacket	Macro Puff Hoody
Insulation	Down 700 FP	Down 700 FP	Down 700 FP	Down 700 FP	Synthetic PlumaFill: 135 g Body / 90 g Side Panels and Sleeves
Cell	Frozen Range Parka	City Storm Parka	Tres 3-in-1 Parka	Jackson Glacier Jacket	Macro Puff Hoody
Pros	Incredibly warm, smooth inner fabric, looks handsome	Warm, longer hemline offers more warmth below torso, more pockets than Frozen Range	Versatile, fairly warm	Very warm for its price,	Loses almost zero warmth under wet conditions, packable
Cons	Can come too warm under 15-20 deg F (-7 - -10 deg C)	Can come too warm under 20 deg F (-10 deg C)	Difficult to use, very heavy, superior combo alternatives can be found when each piece bought separately	Hood and collar configuration could be more comfortable	Huge packed size, coldest pick in this review
Cell	Frozen Range Parka	City Storm Parka	Tres 3-in-1 Parka	Jackson Glacier Jacket	Macro Puff Hoody
Weight	1,253 g (44.2 oz)	1,106 g (39 oz)	1,307 g (46.1 oz)	879 g (31 oz)	434 g (15.3 oz)
Women's counterparts	Women's Frozen Range 3-in-1 Parka	Women's City Storm Parka	Women's Tres 3-in-1 Parka	Women's Jackson Glacier Jacket	Women's Macro Puff Jacket

Some notes:

Yes, for women's specific counterparts, I excluded Vosque. Check out my Patagonia Tres vs Vosque post to read about it.
For ski jackets, check out my Best Patagonia Ski Jackets post.

Temperature Ratings

I'll now provide a chart first to list the lowest temperatures of Patagonia's almost all insulated jackets.

#A sidenote here: Patagonia.com's Web Specials discounts are GOOOLLLDDD. Highly recommend you to check it out before you buy.

Related Data Set: Temperature ratings of Patagonia jackets

Find below the lowest temperatures you can wear each jacket without feeling uncomfortably cold.

These are only approximate values assuming:

you only have a shirt under and no shell over,
during daily use (strolls, power walks etc at most - no high output activities),
with enough wind to cause an umbrella to twist in your hand,
and when it's dry out.

Name	Est. Temp (F/C)	Insulation	Insulated	Review	Discontinued?	M-W
Arc'teryx Alpha Parka (Men's - Women's)	-17/-27	Down	Down		No	M
Feathered Friends Khumbu (Men's)	-17/-27	Down	Down		No	M
Arc'teryx Ceres SV (Men's - Women's)	-15/-26	Down	Down	Review	Yes	M
Mountain Equipment K7 (Men's - Women's)	-13/-25	Down	Down		No	M
Rab Positron Pro (Men's - Women's)	-13/-25	Down	Down		No	M W
Patagonia Grade VII (Men's)	-11/-24	Down	Down		No	M
Arc'teryx Firebee AR (Men's - Women's)	-10/-23	Down	Down	Review	Yes	M W
Mountain Equipment Exo (Men's)	-10/-23	Down	Down		No	M
Arc'teryx Thorsen (Men's)	-7/-22	Down	ParkaD	Review	No	M
Patagonia Frozen Range (Men's - Women's)	-6/-21	Down	ParkaD	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Centrale (Women's)	-5/-20	Down	ParkaD	Review	No	W
Rab Neutrino Pro (Men's - Women's)	-2/-19	Down	Down		No	M W
Arc'teryx Therme (Men's)	-2/-19	Down	ParkaD	Review	No	M
Arc'teryx Dually Belay (Men's)	0/-18	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	Yes	M
Arc'teryx Camosun (Men's)	0/-18	Down	ParkaD	Review	No	M
Arc'teryx Piedmont (Men's)	2/-17	Down	ParkaD		No	M
Arc'teryx Fission SV (Men's - Women's)	3/-16	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M
Outdoor Research Super Alpine (Men's - Women's)	3/-16	Down	Down		No	M W
Patagonia Tres 3-in-1 (Men's - Women's)	3/-16	Down	ParkaD	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Radsten (Men's)	3/-16	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	M
Patagonia Fitz Roy (Men's - Women's)	3/-16	Down	Down		No	M W
Rab Electron Pro (Men's - Women's)	5/-15	Down	Down		No	M W
Arc'teryx Macai (Men's	5/-15	Down	Down	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Nuclei SV Parka (Men's - Women's)	5/-15	Synthetic	Synthetic		No	M W
Patagonia DAS Parka (Men's - Women's)	5/-15	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	M W
Arc'teryx Patera (Women's)	5/-15	Down	ParkaD	Review	No	W
Arc'teryx Cerium SV (Men's - Women's)	7/-14	Down	Down	Review	Yes	M W
Black Diamond Access Down (Men's - Women's)	7/-14	Down	Down		No	M W
Arc'teryx Kappa (Men's - Women's)	7/-14	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	Yes	M
Arc'teryx Prema (Women's)	7/-14	Down	ParkaD		No	W
Arc'teryx Radsten Insulated Men's)	7/-14	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	M
Rab Microlight Alpine (Men's - Women's)	7/-14	Down	Down		No	M W
Patagonia Macro Puff (Men's - Women's)	8/-13	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M W
Feathered Friends Eos (Men's - Women's)	8/-13	Down	Down		No	M W
Arc'teryx Macai LT (Men's)	8/-13	Down	Down		No	M
Arc'teryx Seyla (Women's)	8/-13	Down	ParkaD		No	W
Arc'teryx Koda (Men's)	8/-13	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	M
Arc'teryx Thorium AR (Men's - Women's)	8/-13	Down	Down	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Kole (Men's - Women's)	10/-12	Down	ParkaD		No	W
Patagonia Vosque 3-in-1 (Women's)	10/-12	Synthetic	ParkaS	Review	No	W
Arc'teryx Alpha IS (Men's - Women's)	12/-11	Synthetic	Synthetic		Yes	M
Patagonia Jackson Glacier (Men's - Women's)	12/-11	Down	ParkaD	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Sensa (Women's)	14/-10	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	W
Patagonia Hi Loft Down (Men's - Women's )	14/-10	Down	Down	Review	No	M
REI Magma 850 Hoodie 2.0 (Men's - Women's)	14/-10	Down	Down		No	M W
Arc'teryx Atom AR (Men's - Women's)	18/-8	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M W
Patagonia Downdrift (Men's - Women's)	18/-8	Down	Down		No	M W
Patagonia Down Sweater (Men's - Women's)	19/-7	Down	Down	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Magnus (Men's)	19/-7	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	M
Arc'teryx Agrium (Men's - Women's)	21/-6	Down	Down		No	M W
Patagonia AlpLight Down (Men's - Women's)	21/-6	Down	Down		No	M W
Patagonia Topley (Men's)	23/-5	Down	Down		No	M
Rab Xenon 2.0 (Men's - Women's)	23/-5	Synthetic	Synthetic		No	M W
Patagonia Silent Down (Men's - Women's)	26/-3	Down	Down	Review	No	M W
Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisp/2 (Men's - Women's)	28/-2	Down	Down		No	M W
Arc'teryx Cerium LT (Men's - Women's)	28/-2	Down	Down	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Nuclei FL (Men's - Women's)	32/0	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M W
Patagonia City Storm Down (Men's)	32/0	Down	ParkaD		No	M
Arc'teryx Atom LT (Men's - Women's)	36/2	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M W
Patagonia Micro Puff (Men's - Women's)	36/2	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M W
Patagonia Isthmus (Men's	36/2	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	M
Arc'teryx Proton LT (Men's - Women's)	37/3	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M W
Patagonia Nano Puff (Men's - Women's)	37/3	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Norvan SL Ins. (Men's - Women's)	39/4	Synthetic	Synthetic		Yes	M W
Patagonia Nano Air (Men's - Women's)	41/5	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Cerium SL (Men's - Women's)	43/6	Down	Down	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Proton FL (Men's - Women's)	48/9	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	No	M W
Arc'teryx Atom SL (Men's - Women's)	52/11	Synthetic	Synthetic	Review	Yes	M W
The North Face Summit Down (Men's - Women's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M W
Mountain Equipment Lightline Echo (Men's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M
Mountain Equipment Kryos (Men's - Women's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M W
Mountain Equipment Xeros (Men's - Women's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M
Arc'teryx Andra LT IS (Women's)	Testing	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	W
Arc'teryx Phoria IS (Women's)	Testing	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	W
Feathered Friends Helios (Men's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M
Feathered Friends Volant (Men's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M
Rab Axion Pro (Men's - Women's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M W
Feathered Friends Rock & Ice (Men's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M
Rab Valiance (Men's - Women's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M W
Rab Expedition 8000 (Men's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M
Rab Zero G (Men's)	Testing	Down	Down		No	M
Rab Generator Alpine (Men's)	Testing	Synthetic	Synthetic		No	M
UBR Regulator Parka II (Men's)	Testing	Synthetic	ParkaS		No	M
Helly Hansen LifaLoft (Men's - Women's)	Testing	Synthetic	Synthetic		No	M
Mammut Eigerjoch (Men's - Women's)	Testing	Synthetic	Synthetic		No	M W
Helly Hansen Lumines (Men's - Women's)	Unknown	Synthetic	Synthetic		No	M
Haglofs V Series Mimic (Men's - Women's)	Unknown	Synthetic	Synthetic		No	M W
Black Diamond First Light (Men's - Women's)	Unknown	Synthetic	Synthetic		No	M W

Read more about this chart here in my Insulated Outerwear Temperature Ratings Guide. Also my Best Patagonia Jackets post.

If you think you run warmer or colder than the average person, then shift temperature ranges accordingly.

Lastly - make sure to check out Patagonia.com Web Specials before you buy.

Before you buy anything...

Make sure checking out rock solid used parka options at Patagonia's very own WornWear here: https://wornwear.patagonia.com/shop/search?q=parka

This chart is generally regarded just as informative as the table at the top, so I'd recommend you to check that out deeply.

Patagonia City Storm Parka. Along with Frozen Range Parka, it's one of my top 2 picks.

Before you say it, yes, Patagonia does not give their jackets temperature ratings. They're crystal clear about this.

You can read more about this here in their blog post:

https://www.patagonia.com/stories/from-the-trench-2/story-20140.html

You can go ahead and read it... But, in summary, their reasoning revolves around the subjectivity of the feeling of warmth, and hence causing difficulty of assigning such temperatures.

Although I completely do agree with Patagonia, I think it still is possible to give rough ratings provided that some serious assumptions are also being made.

Which is what I did.

Some of the Patagucci products you see in this post might be discontinued, and hence might be unavailable at patagonia.com.
- If that's the case, then I'd recommend you to check out this page at REI. You might be able to find them there. manufactures great jackets, but they can be expensive for most of us.

Best Patagonia Ski Jacket

Last updated: July 14, 2022 by Canberk Koksal 2 Comments

Patagonia offers 7 genuine Ski & Snowboard Jackets at total (Snowshot offers 3 configurations, which adds up to 7 at total).

#A sidenote here: Patagonia.com's Web Specials discounts are GOOOLLLDDD. Highly recommend you to check it out before you buy.

Cell	These 3 are ready to buy, solid picks			For these 2, I'd wait for next revision(s) due to some design flaws
	Primo Puff	Untracked	Snowshot 3-in-1	SnowDrifter	Departer
MSRP	799 USD	649 USD	399 USD	399 USD	349 USD
Check prices	Patagonia REI Backcountry	Patagonia REI Backcountry	Patagonia REI Backcountry	Patagonia REI Backcountry	Patagonia REI Backcountry
Best for	Severe weather because of its incredible warmth	Mild weather because of its incredible breathability	Budget pick	Cell	Cell
Comments	When you don't need its superior warmth, dial it back by boosting ventilation via pit zips, collar vents and velcro cuffs	Flannel backer feels smooth and pleasant, but you'll need an underlayer for colder weather	Think of this jacket as an assembly of a budget Primo and a budget Untracked. Jack of all trades, master of none.	Wouldn't really recommend it. No thumb loops, seemingly misplaced drawstring loops.	Wouldn't really recommend it. Small and sometimes ill-placed zippers, sleeves too long.
Cell	Primo Puff	Untracked	Snowshot 3-in-1	SnowDrifter	Departer
Breathability Warmth Weather Resistance Durability Weight Bagginess	8/10 10/10 9/10 9/10 5/10 5/10	10/10 N/A 9/10 10/10 8/10 5/10	6/10 8/10 6/10 6/10 3/10 8/10	Not recommended	Not recommended
	Primo Puff	Untracked	Snowshot 3-in-1	SnowDrifter	Departer
Weight	1.1 kg / 38.8 oz	743 g / 26.2 oz	1.35 g / 47.1 oz	587 g / 20.7 oz	646 g / 22.8 oz
Women's counterpart	Women's Primo Puff	Women's Untracked	Women's Snowbelle 3-in-1	Cell	Women's Departer
Cell	#Note: All face fabrics are DWR (durable water repellent) applied. What is DWR by the way? DWR is a coating. It's basically sprayed on to the surface of these jackets as a finish. It stands for Durable Water Repellent - which means that water will be repelled under wet conditions instead of soaking into the fabric. DWR also decreases dry time. It's a good thing these jackets are coated in DWR, but pay attention to the fact that DWR is a coating - meaning that it will wear off over time. Which is why you might want to invest in a DWR spray such as this one for after treatment. As you see, there's a strong correlation between FP x FW and temperature ratings, but not more than, say, 80%. I explained why this happens here in this post of mine.

Patagonia Untracked is my top non-insulated pick.

A few important notes I find worth mentioning:

I'd strongly recommend everyone skiing or snowboarding with Nano Air from time to time rather than prefer climbing/hiking/fat biking with Primo Puff, Untracked or SnowShot from time to time!
Yes, the top recommended two jackets (Primo Puff and Untracked) are pricey, but if you decide to go for them, you should know that they usually pay off,
All jackets come with an embedded RECCO reflector,
Lastly, I'm not an expert on clothing or textile, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

In bagginess row, 5 refers to "true to size".

Some of the Patagucci products you see in this post might be discontinued, and hence might be unavailable at patagonia.com.
- If that's the case, then I'd recommend you to check out this page at REI. You might be able to find them there. manufactures great jackets, but they can be expensive for most of us.

I say genuine because there are other Patagonia jackets out there which I don't consider as genuine Ski & Snowboard Jackets, although you can use them as well.

An example: Ascensionist and Triolet.

They're advertised and designed as all-round alpine jackets, which can be used for skiing and snowboarding as well - in addition to other alpine activities.

Other jackets such as Nano Air and Micro Puff are cover even a wider range of use, which in the end do manage to correspond to skiing and snowboarding needs, although noticeably less so than these 7 genuine jackets (Snowshot offers 3 configurations, which adds up to 7 at total).

I didn't mention these all-round jackets in this post, and rather limited the context with jackets that are designed for skiing & snowboarding only.

Patagonia Vosque vs Tres Parka

Last updated: July 30, 2022 by Canberk Koksal 1 Comment

Patagonia Tres.

So I was wondering about this and couldn't really find any info online. So I ended up contacting Patagonia's Customer Service (see full chat text below).

In summary; if you want to maximize warmth and weather protection; then Tres is probably your best bet - since it's very, very warm (equipped with a whooping 150 grams of down). Otherwise, I'd recommend you to base your decision on their looks above all else.

Speaking of which - Tres look prettier to most.

#A sidenote here: Patagonia.com's Web Specials discounts are GOOOLLLDDD. Highly recommend you to check it out before you buy.

I'd say, generally speaking, when it's dry out, with only a long sleeved shirt under and without a shell on top, with a mild wind and a very low to no activity level...

The approximate lowest temperatures an average person can wear these jackets without feeling cold can be listed as around 5 deg F (-15 deg C) for Tres and around 10 deg F (-12 deg C) for Vosque.

Some of the Patagucci products you see in this post might be discontinued, and hence might be unavailable at patagonia.com.
- If that's the case, then I'd recommend you to check out this page at REI. You might be able to find them there. manufactures great jackets, but they can be expensive for most of us.

If you think you run hotter or colder than the average person, then shift these temperatures ranges accordingly.

Here's my chat with the awesome Patagonia Rep Alex

Alex (08.01.2020 17:09:54): Hello Canberk! My name is Alex. How may I help you today?

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:10:46): Hi Alex!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:10:51): Hey there!

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:10:53): I'm gathering information for a wide range of possible buyers of Women's Vosque and Tres Parkas (all for possibly different types of purposes), so I'd appreciate if you could share their technical & practical differences with me, as well as their most suitable intended uses. What are the advantages & disadvantages of one over the other?

Alex (08.01.2020 17:11:13): Sure, let me pull them up.

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:11:17): How do they compare in terms of warmth, breathability, durability, weather resistance and bagginess/fit?

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:11:19): Thank you!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:11:23): Of course!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:12:54): So the Tres Parka will be warmer and will weigh a little more. The outer shell on the Vosque is a little more durable, but not by much.

Alex (08.01.2020 17:13:03): Both are waterproof.

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:13:32): Alright

Alex (08.01.2020 17:13:38): The Tres Parka uses Down Insulation while the Vosque uses Synthetic Insulation too.

Alex (08.01.2020 17:14:05): Down won't stay warm if it soaks through if you're wearing just the inner layer on its own, synthetic will.

Alex (08.01.2020 17:14:51): But both inner layers are water resistant - so they'll repel light rain/snow for around an hour or two, or heavy rain/snow for about 5-10 minutes.

Alex (08.01.2020 17:15:20): That's basically all the major differences there!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:16:03): Did you have any other questions about these at all?

Alex (08.01.2020 17:16:23): Or about anything else?

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:16:46): Thank you so much Alex!

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:16:52): These are very, very helpful

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:16:56): How warmer is the Tres than the Vosque?

Alex (08.01.2020 17:16:58): You got it!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:17:16): It's noticeably warmer. Where do you live?

Alex (08.01.2020 17:17:21): Or where will these be used?

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:18:15): Ah I'm not looking to get them just for myself or a specific type of user

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:18:26): It's more for a wider range of buyers

Alex (08.01.2020 17:18:28): The Vosque will be more versatile then.

Alex (08.01.2020 17:18:32): Since it's less warm.

Alex (08.01.2020 17:19:03): You'll have a greater temperature range that you can wear it in, and if someone is in a colder part of the world, they can layer a light fleece under it in the winter.

Alex (08.01.2020 17:19:19): Then it'll be a Spring/Winter/Fall coat.

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:19:37): How many grams of down does the Tres have?

Alex (08.01.2020 17:19:39): The Tres is more ideal for just winter, it's a bit warm for Spring and Fall in a lot of places.

Alex (08.01.2020 17:19:41): Let me see.

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:19:48): Thank you!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:19:52): Sure thing!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:20:35): 150 grams

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:20:56): And it isn't equipped with any synthetic insulation, right?

Alex (08.01.2020 17:21:02): Not on the Tres, no.

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:21:23): What about the amount of down in Vosque?

Alex (08.01.2020 17:21:35): It doesn't have Down, it uses synthetic insulation.

Alex (08.01.2020 17:21:38): Let me see how much.

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:21:56): OK, I'm waiting, thank you!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:22:30): You got it!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:24:38): So synthetic insulation isn't measured by overall weight, it's measured by how much a 1 meter by 1 meter piece of the insulation weighs. In the Vosque, it uses 100 grams of synthetic insulation.

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:25:03): I see

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:25:11): I guess that's it, then

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:25:16): Thanks a lot Alex!

Canberk (08.01.2020 17:25:19): Have a great day

Alex (08.01.2020 17:25:22): You got it Canberk!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:25:32): You too! Let us know if you have any more questions come up!

Alex (08.01.2020 17:25:38): Thanks for chatting in! If you have a moment, I'd really appreciate it if you would take this quick survey: [link]

No products found.

Patagonia Synchilla vs Better Sweater

Last updated: July 30, 2022 by Canberk Koksal 2 Comments

Lightweight Synchilla Snap-T Pullover.

There are more Synchilla and Better Sweater models thank you think out there.

Plus, some of them are available in men's or women's specific models only.

I contacted Patagonia Customer Service and shared the screenshots of my chat with them here in this post (scroll down to see it).

Let's start with laying them out here first.

Links are directed to the related products in Patagonia's own site.

#A sidenote here: Patagonia.com's Web Specials discounts are GOOOLLLDDD. Highly recommend you to check it out before you buy.

Synchilla:

Synchilla Classic Fleece Jacket [Men's - Women's]
Synchilla Lightweight Snap-T Fleece Pullover [Men's - Women's]
Synchilla Snap-T Fleece Pullover [Men's]
Synchilla Classic Marsupial Pullover [Men's]

Better Sweater:

Better Sweater Jacket [Men's - Women's]
Better Sweater Hoody [Women's]
Better Sweater 1/4 Zip [Men's - Women's]
Better Sweater Rib Knit 1/4 Zip [Men's]
Better Sweater Fleece Henley Pullover [Men's]
Better Sweater Fleece Shirt Jacket [Men's]
Better Sweater Marsupial Pullover [Men's]
Performance Better Sweater Hoody [Men's - Women's]
Performance Better Sweater Jacket [Men's - Women's]
Performance Better Sweater 1/4 Zip [Men's]

Related Review

Check out my Best Patagonia Fleeces post which contains both Synchilla and Better Sweater.

So how to choose?

Honestly probably looks above all else. This Industrial Green color of Better Sweater is loved by many, including me, so that's what I'd personally prefer.

Some of the Patagucci products you see in this post might be discontinued, and hence might be unavailable at patagonia.com.
- If that's the case, then I'd recommend you to check out this page at REI. You might be able to find them there. manufactures great jackets, but they can be expensive for most of us.

They're all pretty close in warmth, all durable pieces, and none offer substantial breathability for athletic use, except maybe the Performance for low-intensity use (or maybe moderate intensity use if you tend to run substantially colder than the average person).

Synchilla - classic collegiate look, timeless.
Better Sweater - family photo look, classically classy, can be dressed up or down.
Performance - Athletic leisure, aka "athleisure"

None of them are DWR coated.

What's DWR by the way?

DWR is a coating. It's basically sprayed on to the surface of these jackets as a finish. It stands for Durable Water Repellent - which means that water will be repelled under wet conditions instead of soaking into the fabric. DWR also decreases dry time.

It's a good thing these jackets are coated in DWR, but pay attention to the fact that DWR is a coating - meaning that it will wear off over time.

Which is why you might want to invest in one. See Patagonia's own recommendations here.

Here's what the rep told me:

Click on image to enlarge.

My full convo with Patagonia's awesome rep

James (24.12.2019 20:59:18): Hello! My name is James. How may I help you today?

Me (24.12.2019 21:00:14): Hi James, hope you're having a good day. I was wondering about the differences between the Synchilla and Better Sweater products, in terms of warmth, breathability, comfort, weather resistance and durability. Could you help me with that?

James (24.12.2019 21:00:31): Yeah of course!

James (24.12.2019 21:01:11): Sounds like you might have a somewhat specific idea of what you're looking for, can you rank those qualities you listed in order of importance?

Me (24.12.2019 21:01:46): Actually I'm gathering information for a quite a bit wide range of buyers

James (24.12.2019 21:02:44): Is there a general clientele you're buying for? Friends, family, employees?

Me (24.12.2019 21:03:06): Let's say a large group of friends 🙂

Me (24.12.2019 21:03:33): But all for possibly different types of purposes

James (24.12.2019 21:04:54): Hmm, alright. Let's see, I'll try to hit most of the points for each product here.

Me (24.12.2019 21:05:13): That'd be perfect!

James (24.12.2019 21:05:38): (To be transparent, I'm working with someone else simultaneously and want to be able to give you my full attention when responding, just in case there's a delay in my response)

Me (24.12.2019 21:06:01): Thank you James, sure, I totally understand

James (24.12.2019 21:08:07): Alright, so...

James (24.12.2019 21:11:32): Synchilla;

Fuzzier texture,
Warm but not 100% windproof, recommend getting the Lightweight over regular
Dense fleece, durability holds up well over time

Better Sweater;

Great professional look,
Flatter soft texture inside,
Windproof fabric is warm but,
Durability can be an issue if not cared for well.

Breathability not great in either of these for active pursuits, but there is a Performance version of the Better Sweater that has meshed jersey-like material in key areas and makes it versatile enough for low to moderate effort pursuits.

Me (24.12.2019 21:13:50): Wow, that's an amazing answer, thank you James

James (24.12.2019 21:14:24): Yeah of course! That's why I wanted the time to type out a proper reply haha.

Me (24.12.2019 21:14:25): What would you say about their intended uses?

James (24.12.2019 21:15:08): Both are firmly in the category of casual pieces. Even the Performance Better Sweater is more casual than technical.

James (24.12.2019 21:15:33): If you're looking for technical athletic pieces, tell me a little bit about what you're looking for and I can make some recommendations.

Me (24.12.2019 21:16:41): So what would be your main focus when deciding between Synchilla, Better Sweater and Performance Better Sweater? I guess durability, breathability and looks?

Me (24.12.2019 21:17:05): From what I understand they're comparable in terms of warmth and weather resistance capabilities

James (24.12.2019 21:19:16): Honestly probably looks above all else. They're all pretty close in warmth, all durable pieces, and none offer substantial breathability for athletic use, except maybe the Performance for low-intensity use.

Synchilla - classic collegiate look, timeless.
Better Sweater - family photo look, classically classy, can be dressed up or down.
Performance - Athletic leisure, aka "athleisure"

Me (24.12.2019 21:20:51): Perfect. That's all I needed. Thank you for the hand James!

Me (24.12.2019 21:20:53): Have a great day!

James (24.12.2019 21:21:09): You too, my pleasure to help!

If you have a moment, I'd really appreciate it if you would take this quick survey: "link"

James (24.12.2019 21:21:13): And Happy Holidays~

Me (24.12.2019 21:21:27): Sure, I'll give the highest points.

Me (24.12.2019 21:21:31): To you too! Happy holidays!

Me (24.12.2019 21:21:32): Goodbye!

Patagonia Houdini vs Arcteryx Squamish

Last updated: July 30, 2022 by Canberk Koksal 7 Comments

Arc'teryx revised the Squamish in 2019 dramatically. Disregard any reviews and comments put forward before then.

With the 2019 revision, wind and water resistances of the Squamish are improved; and it now looks prettier overall (this Iliad color is really liked by many - including me).

Its breathability, on the other hand, now sucks with the 2019 revision. Just like that of Houdini. They're less than 10 CFM (a measure of breathability that confirms they indeed suck).

That's a bold claim, but in case it has to be said, there it is. Don't believe anyone who claims otherwise.

That's because Arc'teryx and Patagonia simply chose not to design these products for high output activities anymore (although Squamish was a breathable option between 2014-2018). It's mind blowing how the Houdini and 2019 Squamish are marketed to runners in some places...

Latest on the blog:

09 August 2022: 5 things all Arc'teryx newbies should know
03 August 2022: Ultimate size guide to Arc'teryx jackets, pants and shoes
05 July 2022: Explained, Compared & Plotted: CLO values

#A sidenote here: Arcteryx.com's PDF guide to their jackets is GOOOLLDDD. Highly recommend you to check it out before you buy.

Instead of high output activities, these hoodies are actually meant to work as simple pop up shells against sudden summer and spring storms.

I'd recommend the Houdini over the Squamish for many cases as it's lighter, more durable, more weather resistant and more packable than the Squamish.

This is why they're light, packed tiny (so that they can easily fit inside even the smallest pockets of some of your pants), and don't even come with hand pockets.

If this is your intended use for these shells, then they will fill the bill without a hitch, so keep reading.
If, on the other hand, you're actually looking for a shell for any high output activity other than ice/rock climbing and bouldering, then I'd recommend you to stop reading and check out my post about the Arc'teryx's Incendo for summer running and cycling or the one about Patagonia's Houdini Air for all the other aerobic uses during the summer.

They're both significantly more breathable than the Houdini and Squamish.

Weather Resistances

Both Houdini and Squamish are marketed as wind jackets in their product pages as you can see here and here.

Some of the Patagucci products you see in this post might be discontinued, and hence might be unavailable at patagonia.com.
- If that's the case, then I'd recommend you to check out this page at REI. You might be able to find them there. manufactures great jackets, but they can be expensive for most of us.

Compared to the Houdini, Squamish performs noticeably worse in this department - not only for the wind but also for the water resistance capabilities.

Because the DWR coating of 2019 Squamish wears off quicker than that of Houdini.

What is DWR by the way?

DWR is a coating.

It's basically sprayed on to the surface of these jackets as a finish. It stands for Durable Water Repellent - which means that water will be repelled under wet conditions instead of soaking into the fabric.

DWR also decreases dry time.

It's a good thing these jackets are coated in DWR, but pay attention to the fact that DWR is a coating - meaning that it will wear off over time.

Which is why you might want to invest in a DWR spray such as this one for after treatment.

As you see, there's a strong correlation between FP x FW and temperature ratings, but not more than, say, 80%. I explained why this happens here in this post of mine.

More robust face fabric of the Houdini also makes it more durable than the Squamish.

Stuff Sack Sizes

Squamish is packed considerably larger than the Houdini.

If you're planning to use these shells as for what they're designed for, then the superior portability of Houdini is an extra advantage for you. You can even try stowing it into the hand pockets of your pants.

Best uses and conclusion

Like I said, instead of high output activities, these hoodies are actually meant to work as simple pop up shells against sudden summer and spring storms.

So, if you'll be using them for this purpose, then I'd recommend Houdini over Squamish any day.

...with one exception.

Velcro cuffs and chest pocket (accessible when you have a harness on) of the Squamish come very useful during the activities where hands are involved - most popular ones being rock/ice climbing and bouldering. So I'd recommend the Squamish in that case.

If you tend to overheat, though, breathability would definitely fall short. I'd head towards something provides more breathability without sacrificing weather protection, such as the Houdini Air.