Patagonia insulated jackets

Both Nano Puff and Down Sweater are revised multiple times in recent years, so disregard the comments & reviews posted before 2019 August.

As some of you know, upon comparing the Nano Puff to Micro Puff and also the Down Sweater to Micro Puff, I received many requests to put together a post around Nano Puff vs Down Sweater specifically - so here we are. A quick summary first:

Out in dry weather, the Down Sweater is noticeably warmer than the Nano Puff, but it might be a superior option due to its higher durability. It, however, loses its insulating capability significantly when it gets wet, so Nano Puff could be a better choice for damp areas.

Also, the Down Sweater looks better than the Nano Puff to most people (this Carbon color is especially liked by many - including me). Also, if you want to maximize versatility; Nano Puff is probably the better option.

The biggest cause of these differences lies in their different insulation methods: Down vs synthetic.

Warmth

I'd say, generally speaking, when it's dry out (this is important. More on this later), with only a long sleeved shirt under and without a shell on top, with a mild wind and a very low to no activity level...

The approximate lowest temperatures an average person can wear these jackets without feeling cold can be listed as:

19 deg F (-7 deg C) for Down Sweater and 37 deg F (3 deg C) for Nano Puff.

If you think you run hotter or colder than the average person, mentally shift these temperatures accordingly. 

Depending on the soaking intensity, it can drop somewhere around the Nano Puff or even further down the line. 

If it isn't considered unusually cold when it gets lower than 14 deg F's (-10 deg C's) where you live, and still dry the vast majority of days, then you might better forget about these two hoodies and instead consider something warmer such as the Thorium AR.

What about when it's rainy, humid, snowy, wet, and/or damp? 

As I explained earlier, warmth of Down Sweater will suffer significantly when it gets wet. 

The down inside the Down Sweater provides warmth by heating the air it had trapped among its vacant spots. When the down gets soaked, these spots are no longer as large (or even exist - depending on the liquid intensity). 

This causes the Down Sweater to lose its insulating power. 

The Nano Puff, on the other hand, provides warmth via synthetic insulation instead of down. It successfully mimics the heating capability of down, and on top of that, it doesn't lose its insulating power when it gets wet either, although it comes with its own disadvantages and downsides: 

• The more often you stuff the Nano Puff into its own sack, the quicker it'll get old and in the long run (say, 3-4 years), it'll eventually lose its insulating power. The Down Sweater, on the other hand, can provide the very same warmth for decades. 

If a fair amount of days are damp AND colder than 30 - 40 deg F's (0 - 5 deg C's) where you live, then Nano Puff wouldn't cut it. I'd recommend you to get something superior like the Arc'teryx's Fission SV. Or a Parka, such as Camosun, Therme or Thorsen. 

Weather Resistance

Down Sweater is less water resistant than the Nano Puff because of the vulnerability of its down insulation. 

Yes, they are coated with DWR, which does help with preventing the rain drops from getting soaked into the internal surface of the Down Sweater, but doesn't help so much with its warmth. 

So, once the fill of Down Sweater gets wet - its warmth will drop significantly and DWR doesn't change that dramatically. 

They are, however, comparable in terms of wind resistance and do better than average. 

Durability

Outer face of the Nano Puff (1.4-oz 20-denier for shell and 1.3-oz 22-denier for lining) is more robust than the Down Sweater (1.4-oz 20x30-denier in shell and 1.4-oz 20-denier in lining). 

It still isn't anywhere near Arc'teryx's Atom AR as I laid out in this post, but I'd still classify it as a durable hoody. 

Breathability

These jackets aren't made using advanced breathable fabric, and they aren't equipped with pit zips either - so I'd recommend you to absolutely forget about getting these jackets if breathability is one of your expectations. 

They aren't designed to breathe anyway and hence both are worse than average. 

Style

To most people, Down Sweater looks prettier (especially this Carbon color is liked by many - including me). 

Nano Puff certainly doesn't look bad either. One thing I'd note would probably be its backside. It often gets "wrinkled" and doesn't look great IMO (image at patagonia.com). Not a deal-breaker, but maybe something to consider. 

Stuff Sacks

Some sites may claim that the Down Sweater doesn't pack into its own pocket - but it does. 

It's packed a little larger than the Nano Puff - but the difference is minimal as you see here. It's still tiny. 

Conclusion

Out in dry weather, the Down Sweater is noticeably warmer than the Nano Puff, but it might be a superior option due to its higher durability. It, however, loses its insulating capability significantly when it gets wet, so Nano Puff could be a better choice for damp areas.

Also, the Down Sweater looks better than the Nano Puff to most people (this Carbon color is especially liked by many - including me). Also, if you want to maximize versatility; Nano Puff is probably the better option.

Down Sweater:

Nano Puff:

Here's a good video review of Nano Puff:

And of the Down Sweater:

The differences between Patagonia's Micro Puff and Down Sweater come down to the difference in their insulation methods: Synthetic vs down. 

This affects almost everything, which is why I recommend you to make your decision based on this difference and their styles to your taste. I'd look at everything else as details. 

In summary, unlike Down Sweater, the Micro Puff won't lose its insulating capability when it gets wet and hence is more suitable for areas with damp winters. For a mostly dry weather use, Down Sweater can be a better choice since both of its 800 FP down and face fabric is more durable than the Micro Puff in the long term. 

I've also talked to the Patagonia Customer Service about Micro Puff vs Down Sweater, and shared the screenshots here in this post. 

• Loss of insulating capability when it's wet/damp out. 
• Delayed warmth after putting it on. 

Overcoming these disadvantages comes with its own costs and downsides - which eventually made up the disadvantages of synthetic insulation (used in the Micro Puff): 

• Fragile face fabric (specific to Micro Puff), 
• Loss of insulating capability after 3-4 years. 

These are the 4 key points to consider. 

The second point of Micro Puff is typically looked at as a disadvantage of sleeping bags and quilts with synthetic insulation, and often not so much of the clothing since (1) most of us tend to renew our casual wear wardrobe much more often than our outdoor gear and (2) the wearing out occurs each time the jacket is stuffed into its own sack - rather than occurring simply as the time passes. 

That's why, if you're planning to use your Micro Puff or Down Sweater mostly casually when it's cold out in the neighborhood (which is what they are mostly designed for anyway), then I'd recommend you to forget about the second disadvantage of Micro Puff. 

If, on the other hand, you're planning to wear them when skiing, traveling, hiking and/or camping for a fair amount of time, then I'd recommend you to keep this disadvantage in your minds as you read on since packability can't be completely overlooked in your case. 

Warmth

For folks who are unaware of the basic working principle of Down Sweater's down insulation, here's a two sentence introduction first (this is important). 

Down provides warmth by heating and holding on to the air cluster trapped within its vacant spots. Synthetic insulation in the Micro Puff basically tries and mimics this exact process of down - but via artificial, man-made equipment (65 grams of PlumaFill). 

So, the higher the total volume of these empty spots inside the down, the more the air is going to be heated, and hence the provided warmth will be higher. Because the down's ability to loft gets lost as it gets wet, so does its ability to trap/heat more air. 

Ultimately, its warmth will be impacted negatively. 

This working principle is also why the fully extended volume of (dry) down is a crucial metric (referred to as FP) and determines the down's quality, warmth potential, durability and price tag. 

To my knowledge, FP numbers start from 450 and goes up to 850. This makes the 800 FP down of Down Sweater one of the highest quality fills in today's world. 

This doesn't mean that it's impossible to manufacture a clothing piece using a rather low quality (say, 500 FP down) and make it quite warm. You perfectly can - but you'd just have to stuff a bunch of it - quite a bit more than the amount it would take if you had used a 800 FP down instead. 

Which brings me to my next point... 

Down Sweater is NOT filled up with a lot of 800 FP down. It doesn't fall short by any means either, but it just isn't filled up to a point where it's impossible for a synthetic insulator to mimic this warmth without ending up being ridiculously heavy. 

In the end, Micro Puff provides the same warmth the Down Sweater does. 

In fact, technically speaking, it even EXCEEDS it; but you likely won't notice a difference in practice. 

Results

I'd say, generally speaking, when it's dry out, with only a long sleeved shirt under and without a shell on top, with a mild wind and a very low to no activity level... 

The approximate lowest temperatures where an average person can wear these jackets without feeling cold can be listed as: 

19 deg F (-7 deg C) for Down Sweater and 36 deg F -2 deg C) for Micro Puff. 

As you see, in dry weather, the difference is minimal and I'm pretty sure none of you will notice a difference in practice (maybe just a little tiny bit). 

When it's wet out, though; keep in mind that the warmth of Down Sweater will suffer and drop significantly. 

If you think you run hotter or colder than the average person, mentally shift these temperatures accordingly. 

Delayed warmth

As grueling as it sounds, this entire process of the down heating and holding on to the air cluster... takes time. Longer than the synthetic insulation. 

This makes up one of the two disadvantages of the Down Sweater laid out above. You don't get to feel the cozy warmth the moment you put on your Down Sweater. 

With the Micro Puff, though; it doesn't take that much until the maximum potential warmth is achieved. The difference is noticeable. 

Durability

And this, is the disadvantage of Micro Puff. 

I know I've kept saying that the insulating power of Down Sweater can last for decades (much shorter for the Micro Puff), and that's true; but there's one more parameter there: 

• How often are you going to be stuffing them into their own sacks? 

The quicker loss of Micro Puff's insulation capability doesn't occur when these jackets are simply at rest. 

Instead, it occurs each time you stuff the Micro Puff into its own sack and then release it back. The more you do this cycle, the quicker it'll get old. 

For the Down Sweater, on the other hand, it doesn't really matter, since its insulation is very durable. So you can stop worrying about it and instead use the stuff sack freely (which you'll also do with the Micro Puff anyway... so it'll get older quicker). 

Regardless of the insulation, face fabric of Micro Puff is also fairly fragile. 

Weather Resistance

Weather resistances of Down Sweater and Micro Puff are comparable - but the difference is reflected to their warmth. 

They're both coated with DWR, which helps with the rain. 

Yes, the DWR does help with preventing the rain drops from getting soaked into the internal surface of the Down Sweater, but doesn't help so much with its warmth. 

Again, once the fill gets wet - its warmth will drop significantly. 

Breathability

Face fabric of Micro Puff (0.7-oz 10-denier for both shell and lining) breathes slightly better than the Down Sweater (1.4-oz 20x30-denier in shell and 1.4-oz 20-denier in lining), although neither of these jackets are designed to breathe and hence are terrible in this department. 

They're not equipped with pit zips either - so I'd recommend you to forget about getting these jackets if breathability is one of your expectations. 

Stuff Sack 

Down Sweater is stuffed into its own sack just a little larger than the Micro Puff - but the difference is minimal: 

Style

To most people, Down Sweater looks prettier (especially this Carbon color is liked by many - including me). 

Micro Puff... I don't know. Looks overly wrinkled and pretty bad. At least to me. 

Weight

Micro Puff weighs almost half of Down Sweater {9.3 ounces (264 grams) vs 15.1 ounces (428 grams)}. This is a HUGE difference.

Micro Puff offers an exceptional level of warmth to weight ratio. 

My discussion with the Patagonia Rep

Here are the screenshots I took. Reps can sometimes provide inaccurate information or even flat out incorrect "facts" every now and then - so take the info in this conversation with a grain of salt.

I don't agree with him (or her?) here and there.

What about the alternatives?

I'd recommend the Nano Puff as the alternative to the Micro Puff. Here you can check out my post about their comparison. As some of you know, these two hoodies take part in my top Arc'teryx & Patagonia synthetic insulation picks, although they're the last two.

If you're looking for an alternative to the Down Sweater, I'd recommend you to check out my posts about Arc'teryx's Cerium LT and Thorium AR. 

Conclusion

• If you'll be using them as outer layers (standalone pieces): 

Micro Puff (synthetic insulation) is more suitable for areas with damp winters. For a mostly dry weather use, Down Sweater can be a better choice since its down insulation is likely to last years longer than the Micro Puff.

• If you'll be using them as mid-layers:

Down sweater would probably be a better choice for most of you. Keep in mind that Micro Puff also provides exceptional warmth to weight ratio.

Check out the best price options for Micro Puff Hoody below:

Check out the best price options for Down Sweater Hoody below:

Here's a good review of Micro Puff:

Of the Down Sweater: