Patagonia insulated jackets

Down Sweater is revised for FW23, and the information given in this article is only applicable to this most recent version. 

The main highlight in this revision is in the fill weight - it's increased from 104 to 150 grams. A pretty big difference. Number of internal drop-in pockets has also been increased from 1 to 2. 

If you're stuck between getting either a Down Sweater or a Nano Puff, then making up your mind should be rather easy. Because, the Down Sweater is a down jacket (duh), whereas the Nano Puff is a synthetic insulated jacket. 

This means that these two are oriented towards completely different best uses. 

Down Sweater is warmer than the Nano Puff (see temperature ratings below), but only consider it for dry areas, because under precipitation it won't only soak water but it'll also lose its insulating power. 

Nano Puff, on the other hand, is more weather resistant, lighter and more packable than the Down Sweater. 

• If you're not planning to perform high output activities with these jackets... 

Then I'd absolutely get the Down Sweater for dry areas. A stunning jacket. For damp areas, Nano Puff would certainly be better than the Down Sweater, but even a better option would be the Micro Puff here. See Nano Puff vs Micro Puff article if you'd like to read more about this. 

• If you're planning to perform high output activities less than, say, once every two weeks with these jackets... 

Then I'd get the Nano Puff even if it offers mediocre breathability because it certainly is more suitable than the Down Sweater in this regard. It's also better than the Micro Puff since the face fabric of Micro Puff is extremely fragile, unlike Nano Puff's burly face fabric. 

• If you're planning to perform high output activities more than, say, once every two weeks with these jackets... 

Then forget about these jackets because none of them would cut it. Consider getting a DAS Light Hoody (Men's - Women's) or a Nano Air (Men's - Women's) instead. 

Links: 

• Nano Puff: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-nano-puff-hoody/84222.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-nano-puff-hoody/84227.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-nano-puff-jacket/84212.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-nano-puff-jacket/84217.html
• https://www.rei.com/product/102403/patagonia-nano-puff-insulated-hoodie-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/102352/patagonia-nano-puff-insulated-hoodie-womens
• https://www.rei.com/product/102404/patagonia-nano-puff-jacket-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/102353/patagonia-nano-puff-jacket-womens
• Down Sweater: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater-hoody/84702.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater/84675.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater-hoody/84712.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater/84684.html
• https://www.rei.com/product/208593/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208409/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-womens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208592/patagonia-down-sweater-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208408/patagonia-down-sweater-womens
• Micro Puff: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-hoody/84031.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-jacket/84066.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-hoody/84041.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-jacket/84071.html
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-insulated-jacket-womens

Warmth

Check out the chart below for more information. 

What about when it's rainy, humid, snowy, wet, and/or damp? 

As I explained earlier, warmth of Down Sweater will suffer significantly when it gets wet. 

The down inside the Down Sweater provides warmth by heating the air it had trapped among its vacant spots. When the down gets soaked, these spots are no longer as large (or even exist - depending on the liquid intensity). 

This causes the Down Sweater to lose its insulating power. 

The Nano Puff, on the other hand, provides warmth via synthetic insulation instead of down. It successfully mimics the heating capability of down, and on top of that, it doesn't lose its insulating power when it gets wet either, although it comes with its own disadvantages and downsides: 

• The more often you stuff the Nano Puff into its own sack, the quicker it'll get old and in the long run (say, 3-4 years), it'll eventually lose its insulating power. The Down Sweater, on the other hand, can provide the very same warmth for decades. 

If a fair amount of days are damp AND colder than 30 - 40 deg F's (0 - 5 deg C's) where you live, then Nano Puff wouldn't cut it. I'd recommend you to get something superior like the Arc'teryx's Fission SV. Or a Parka, such as Camosun, Therme or Thorsen. 

Weather Resistance

Down Sweater is less water resistant than the Nano Puff because of the vulnerability of its down insulation. 

Yes, both of these jackets are coated with DWR, which does help with preventing the rain drops from getting soaked into the internal surface of the Down Sweater, but doesn't help so much with its warmth. 

So, once the fill of Down Sweater gets wet - its warmth will drop significantly and DWR doesn't change that dramatically. 

They are, however, comparable in terms of wind resistance and both do a pretty good job in that manner. 

Durability

Outer face of the Nano Puff (1.4-oz 20-denier for shell and 1.3-oz 22-denier for lining) is more robust than the Down Sweater (1.4-oz 20x30-denier in shell and 1.4-oz 20-denier in lining). 

It still isn't anywhere near Arc'teryx's Atom AR as I laid out in this post, but I'd still classify it as a durable hoody. 

Breathability

These jackets aren't made using advanced breathable membranes, and they aren't equipped with pit zips (or mesh panels) either - so I'd recommend you to absolutely forget about getting these jackets if breathability is one of your expectations. 

They aren't designed to breathe anyway and hence both are worse than average. 

Style

Down Sweater looks prettier to me. But I certainly get the hype around Micro and Nano Puff jackets. 

Stuff Sacks

Some sites may claim that the Down Sweater doesn't pack into its own pocket - but it does.

It's packed a little larger than the Nano Puff - but the difference is minimal as you see here. It's still tiny. 

Conclusion

Out in dry weather, the Down Sweater is noticeably warmer than the Nano Puff, but it might be a superior option due to its higher durability. It, however, loses its insulating capability significantly when it gets wet, so Nano Puff could be a better choice for damp areas.

Links: 

• Nano Puff: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-nano-puff-hoody/84222.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-nano-puff-hoody/84227.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-nano-puff-jacket/84212.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-nano-puff-jacket/84217.html
• https://www.rei.com/product/102403/patagonia-nano-puff-insulated-hoodie-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/102352/patagonia-nano-puff-insulated-hoodie-womens
• https://www.rei.com/product/102404/patagonia-nano-puff-jacket-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/102353/patagonia-nano-puff-jacket-womens
• Down Sweater: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater-hoody/84702.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater/84675.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater-hoody/84712.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater/84684.html
• https://www.rei.com/product/208593/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208409/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-womens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208592/patagonia-down-sweater-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208408/patagonia-down-sweater-womens
• Micro Puff: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-hoody/84031.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-jacket/84066.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-hoody/84041.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-jacket/84071.html
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-insulated-jacket-womens

Here's a good video review of Nano Puff:

And of the Down Sweater:

In FW23, Patagonia revised both of Micro Puff and Down Sweater. See updates: 

Highlights of the Down Sweater update: 

• Fill weight is increased from 104 grams to 150 grams (main update), 
• Number of internal drop-in pockets has been increased from 1 to 2, 
• Outer fabric is now NetPlus (recycled waste) shell. 

Highlights of the Micro Puff update: 

• Number of internal drop-in pockets has been increased from 1 to 2, 
• Outer fabric is now NetPlus (recycled waste) shell. 

There has also been small changes made in the colors, fit and hood sizes. 

Patagonia's Down Sweater and Micro Puff are both light, packable, warm and fantastic all-doer casual jackets. Depending on the weather, they both can be used as mid-layers or stand alone pieces. They're pretty much identical in terms of best use.

Their main difference lies in their methods of insulation: Down vs Synthetic. 

Down Sweater is warmer than the Micro Puff, but since down loses insulating power under wet conditions, only consider it for dry areas. Micro Puff, on the other hand, is more weather resistant (owing to its synthetic insulation), lighter and more packable than the Down Sweater. 

Additionally, if you're planning to perform high output activities more than, say, once every two weeks, then neither of these jackets would cut it for you - even the Micro Puff (fragile outer fabric and mediocre breathability).

So, in that case, consider getting Patagonia DAS Light Hoody (Men's - Women's) and Patagonia Nano Air (Men's - Women's). 

Links: 

• Micro Puff: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-hoody/84031.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-jacket/84066.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-hoody/84041.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-jacket/84071.html
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-insulated-jacket-womens
• Down Sweater: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater-hoody/84702.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater/84675.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater-hoody/84712.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater/84684.html
• https://www.rei.com/product/208593/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208409/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-womens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208592/patagonia-down-sweater-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208408/patagonia-down-sweater-womens

Also check out their temperature ratings below. 

I've also talked to the Patagonia Customer Service about Micro Puff vs Down Sweater, and shared the screenshots here in this post. 

The motivation behind trying to come up with a brand new insulation technique (which, ended up being synthetic insulation) was to defy the two strong disadvantages of down (used in Down Sweater): 

• Loss of insulating capability when it's wet/damp out. 
• Delayed warmth after putting it on. 

Overcoming these disadvantages comes with its own costs and downsides - which eventually made up the disadvantages of synthetic insulation (used in the Micro Puff): 

• Fragile face fabric (specific to Micro Puff), 
• Loss of insulating capability after 3-4 years. 

These are the 4 key points to consider. 

The second point of Micro Puff is typically looked at as a disadvantage of sleeping bags and quilts with synthetic insulation, and often not so much of the clothing since (1) most of us tend to renew our casual wear wardrobe much more often than our outdoor gear and (2) the wearing out occurs each time the jacket is stuffed into its own sack - rather than occurring simply as the time passes. 

That's why, if you're planning to use your Micro Puff or Down Sweater mostly casually when it's cold out in the neighborhood (which is what they are mostly designed for anyway), then I'd recommend you to forget about the second disadvantage of Micro Puff. 

If, on the other hand, you're planning to wear them when skiing, traveling, hiking and/or camping for a fair amount of time, then I'd recommend you to keep this disadvantage in your minds as you read on since packability can't be completely overlooked in your case. 

Warmth

For folks who are unaware of the basic working principle of Down Sweater's down insulation, here's a two sentence introduction first (this is important). 

Down provides warmth by heating and holding on to the air cluster trapped within its vacant spots. Synthetic insulation in the Micro Puff basically tries and mimics this exact process of down - but via artificial, man-made equipment (65 grams of PlumaFill). 

So, the higher the total volume of these empty spots inside the down, the more the air is going to be heated, and hence the provided warmth will be higher. Because the down's ability to loft gets lost as it gets wet, so does its ability to trap/heat more air. 

Ultimately, its warmth will be impacted negatively. 

This working principle is also why the fully extended volume of (dry) down is a crucial metric (referred to as FP) and determines the down's quality, warmth potential, durability and price tag. 

To my knowledge, FP numbers start from 450 and goes up to 950. This makes the 800 FP down of Down Sweater one of the highest quality fills in today's world. 

This doesn't mean that it's impossible to manufacture a clothing piece using a rather low quality (say, 500 FP down) and make it quite warm. You perfectly can - but you'd just have to stuff a bunch of it - quite a bit more than the amount it would take if you had used a 800 FP down instead. 

Delayed warmth

As grueling as it sounds, this entire process of the down heating and holding on to the air cluster... takes time. Longer than the synthetic insulation. 

This makes up one of the two disadvantages of the Down Sweater laid out above. You don't get to feel the cozy warmth the moment you put on your Down Sweater. 

With the Micro Puff, though; it doesn't take that much until the maximum potential warmth is achieved. The difference is noticeable. 

Center back length

The Down Sweater is extremely short, which affects its warmth. This can be a disadvantage if you aren't planning to insulate your legs, so keep that in mind. 

Links: 

• Micro Puff: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-hoody/84031.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-jacket/84066.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-hoody/84041.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-jacket/84071.html
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-insulated-jacket-womens
• Down Sweater: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater-hoody/84702.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater/84675.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater-hoody/84712.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater/84684.html
• https://www.rei.com/product/208593/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208409/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-womens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208592/patagonia-down-sweater-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208408/patagonia-down-sweater-womens

Durability

And this, is the disadvantage of Micro Puff. 

I know I've kept saying that the insulating power of Down Sweater can last for decades (much shorter for the Micro Puff), and that's true; but there's one more parameter there: 

• How often are you going to be stuffing them into their own sacks? 

The quicker loss of Micro Puff's insulation capability doesn't occur when these jackets are simply at rest. 

Instead, it occurs each time you stuff the Micro Puff into its own sack and then release it back. The more you do this cycle, the quicker it'll get old.

For the Down Sweater, on the other hand, it doesn't really matter, since its insulation is very durable. So you can stop worrying about it and instead use the stuff sack freely (which you'll also do with the Micro Puff anyway... so it'll get older quicker). 

Regardless of the insulation, face fabric of Micro Puff is also fairly fragile. 

Weather Resistance

Micro Puff is more weather resistant than Down Sweater. Not only does it stand better against wind and precipitation, but its warmth also doesn't decrease when the jacket gets wet (which, as mentioned earlier, isn't the case with Down Sweater). 

The difference isn't huge, by the way, but definitely is noticeable. 

By the way, they're both coated with DWR. 

Yes, the DWR does help with preventing the rain drops from getting soaked into the internal surface of the Down Sweater, but doesn't help so much with its warmth. 

Again, once the fill gets wet, its warmth will drop significantly. Depending on the precipitation, the water will get in, too. 

Pockets

Both offer 2 internal drop-in pockets (large enough to fit 110 mm skins) and 2 external hand warmer pockets. 

Breathability

Face fabric of Micro Puff (0.7-oz 10-denier shell and lining) breathes slightly better than the Down Sweater (1.4-oz 20x30-denier shell and 1.4-oz 20-denier lining).

But, neither of these jackets are designed to breathe and hence are terrible in this department. They're not equipped with pit zips either, so I'd recommend you to forget about getting these jackets if breathability is one of your expectations. 

Check out Nano Air (Men's - Women's) in that case.

Style

To most people, Down Sweater looks prettier (especially this Carbon color is liked by many - including me). 

Micro Puff... I don't know. Looks overly wrinkled and pretty bad. At least to me. 

Weight and Packability

Micro Puff offers an exceptional level of warmth to weight ratio. This is a bit strange because you'd actually expect this from a down product first and synthetic product second. 

Micro Puff is the lightest and most packable synthetic insulated puffy in Patagonia's line-up. 

Links: 

• Micro Puff: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-hoody/84031.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-micro-puff-jacket/84066.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-hoody/84041.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-micro-puff-jacket/84071.html
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-jacket-mens
• https://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-micro-puff-hooded-insulated-jacket-womens
• Down Sweater: 
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater-hoody/84702.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-down-sweater/84675.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater-hoody/84712.html
• https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-down-sweater/84684.html
• https://www.rei.com/product/208593/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208409/patagonia-down-sweater-hoodie-womens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208592/patagonia-down-sweater-mens
• https://www.rei.com/product/208408/patagonia-down-sweater-womens

My discussion with the Patagonia Rep

Here are the screenshots I took. Reps can sometimes provide inaccurate information or even flat out incorrect "facts" every now and then - so take the info in this conversation with a grain of salt. 

Product videos