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Nemo Riff/Jam vs Disco/Rave (15 & 30): Only ONE Difference

Last updated: August 17, 2022 by Canberk Koksal

Rave 15 (see image) and Disco 15 are as warm as Jam 15 and Riff 15! Lower FP does not always mean lower warmth... I mean, as long as you're using your sleeping bag like everyone else in this world and not like shown in the picture!

If you're a cold, side (or tummy) sleeper looking for a backpacking sleeping bag, don't get a regular mummy sleeping bag and instead check out Nemo's Riff and Disco models. Their spoon-shaped design allows greater room around your legs and shoulders without sacrificing warmth, which solves the problem for cold, side (or tummy) sleepers. You can see their manuals here [PDF].

But... which one should you get? Disco or Riff (or, for women, Rave or Jam)? 15 or 30? Reg or Long? This post is all you need for the answer.

In summary, if extra 2-4 ounces and an inch longer packed size aren't huge concerns for you, Disco 15 (or Rave 15 for women) will work perfectly fine! Otherwise, Riff 15 (or Jam 15 for women) would be a better choice. 

Because, most importantly, the warmth provided by Riff/Jam 15 is equal to the Disco/Rave 15, and the warmth provided by Riff/Jam 30 is equal to the Disco/Rave 30!

  • Nemo might be on sale now at REI

So I'd recommend you to check out Nemo's very own sale page at REI before buying. 

Before I get to the bolts and nuts, I'd like to say that I really don't see why would anyone go for 30 F deg models of these bags. Decrease in price doesn't worth the warmth sacrifice - even if you aren't a true cold sleeper (more on this later)...

So, as you see, their only difference is:

Weight and packed size.

I talked to the NEMO Equipment Customer Service (screenshots below) and made hours of research to conclude that Riff/Jam Series DO NOT provide more warmth than Disco/Rave Series!

Click on image to enlarge. I know the rep didn't make some points clear enough. That's why I kept asking him and shared the screenshots below.

In fact... You know what? Technically speaking, Disco/Rave provide more warmth than Riff/Jam (although the difference is pretty much not noticeable)! More on this later.


Now on paper, their differences are as follows:

  • What does Riff/Jam offer in addition to Disco/Rave?
  • Higher down quality (so called fill power): 800 FP is used in Riff/Jam compared to Disco/Rave's 650 FP
  • Fill weight (so called fill power): Less down is used in Riff/Jam and hence it weighs less
  • Thinner shell fabric: 20D vs 30D - which is slightly lighter & more compressible but also slightly less durable
  • Weight: Slightly (2-4 ounces) lighter
  • Packed smaller: 0.5 inches shorter (in length - not dia) when packed

I didn't provide the exact numbers to these specs because they differ between 15-30, male-female, reg-long models.

And now let me translate these.

Fill Power Difference: 650 FP vs 800 FP

Fill Power (FP) is the measured loft of down. In other words, it's the end size of the down when it's in rest, e.g. "fully expanded".

For example, an 600 FP down means that 1 oz of that down can cover 600 cubic inches. This, in other words, is what defines the quality of down. Higher FP means more warmth for its weight. Because more air will be trapped inside the down and will work as an insulator:

Generally speaking, for sleeping bags, over 750 FP (to my knowledge, they go up to 900 FP) is considered top notch quality down (Riff/Jam) whereas 600-750 FP as "medium" quality (Disco/Rave).

Now when I said "for its weight" above, what I'm trying to say is that Fill Power is NOT the only thing that determines the ultimate warmth of a bag. The amount of down is also very important - which is called "fill weight".

A product filled with 500 FP down can provide the warmth a product with 800 FP down does. But it certainly will be A LOT HEAVIER since it requires more down!

And that, kids, is what causes the key difference between Disco/Rave and Riff/Jam products. Disco/Rave is filled with more 650 FP down, whereas Riff/Jam is filled with less 800 FP down.

As a result, Riff/Jam weighs substantially (2-4 oz - depending on the model you get) less and its packed size is smaller.

But what about their ultimate warmth? Does Jam/Rave's 20.5 oz 800 FP down provide more warmth than Disco/Rave's 22.5 oz 650 FP down?

Short answer: No. They're identical.

Now when we get to the long answer - I don't know the math behind these calculations, but I do know something more useful: EN 13537.

It's a standard metric used for the warmth provided by a sleeping bag. It basically takes into account ALL the factors that affect the warmth of a sleeping bag and rate them on a scale. Lower EN Rating always means more warmth!

Now let's see where Disco/Rave and Riff/Jam stand...

EN Ratings

EN 13537 is the warmth standard for sleeping bags, and there are different EN ratings. 

EN Comfort

For example, EN Comfort shows the minimum temperature a 25 year old, 5'3" (1.6 m) & 130 lb (60 kg) female can sleep comfortably inside the bag. It's based on women since they sleep colder than men. Lower EN Comfort means higher warmth.

EN Lower Limit

EN Comfort isn't end all be all.

There are other measurements such as EN Lower Limit - which shows the minimum temperature at which a 25 year old, 5'8" (1.73 m) & 160 lbs male can sleep for 8 hours in a curled position without waking up. Similar to EN Comfort, the lower the EN Lower Limit, the warmer you'll feel inside the bag.

There are also EN Upper Limit and EN Extreme, which I won't go into detail, so you can check Wikipedia for that matter.

Now let's see where our two (*cough* four) bags stand:

As you see, judging by the EN standards, Disco/Rave provides even more warmth than Riff/Jam! But the difference is pretty much not noticeable, so I don't really agree with the "if you sleep on the colder side get Disco/Rave" part.  

Warmth debate concluded: Disco/Rave 15 will provide equal warmth to Riff/Jam 15. Disco/Rave 30 will provide equal warmth to Riff/Jam 30.

But... Which one should you get? 15 or 30?

Disco/Rave Riff/Jam 15 vs 30

Once more, I'd like to repeat that the warmth performance of the bag you get will be determined by whether you get the 15 or 30 model. Whether you get Disco/Rave or Riff/Jam will determine the weight and packed size of the bag - not its warmth.

15 will perform well in temperatures as low as 15 F (-9 C) and 30 will perform well in temperatures as low as 30 F (-1 C).

I'd also like to say one more time that I really don't see why would anyone go for 30 F deg models of these bags. Decrease in price doesn't worth the warmth sacrifice - even if you don't sleep really cold.

If you decide to buy one of these bags, buy the 15 F model!

Shell Fabrics: 20D vs 30D

Shell fabric isn't an insulator-specific term.

In our case, Riff vs Disco, the difference is that Disco uses 30D Nylon Ripstop w/ DWR whereas Riff uses 20D Nylon Ripstop w/ DWR. Higher denier (D) means thicker fabric, and therefore Disco is heavier & more durable compared to Riff, whereas Riff is not only lighter but also can be compressed further although it has slightly less durability.

On the other hand... These are from very scientific standpoint, guys. In practice, the difference is so subtle that priority of shell fabric thickness in the durability department is waaaay behind how you treat the bag or how long you use it.

That's why I change my argument to this:

Both are great fabric thicknesses (deniers) for sleeping bags and you won't notice a difference in practice.

Besides shell, their Footbox (both 40D Nylon Ripstop OSMO w/ DWR) and Lining (both 30D Nylon Taffeta w/ DWR) fabrics are identical.

What about the size? Reg or long?

This mostly comes down to your height. They're designed for the users as follows:

  • Men's regular models: Men below 6' (183 cm)
  • Men's long models: Men above 6' (183 cm)
  • Women's regular models: Women below 5'6" (168 cm)
  • Women's long models: Women above 5'6" (168 cm)

Besides height, I'd like to mention one more important thing here. When I was talking about most effective ways to heat a tent without electricity, one of my tips was to heat some rocks by the camp fire and place them inside your tent or sleeping bag (away from your stomach/kidneys).

So, if you think you might use this tip and if you're borderline between Reg/Long models (e.g. if you're a 6' male or a 5'6" female) it might be a good idea to go for the long model.

Other shared features of these bags

They all come with the following. Nemo honestly offers all the features you can ask from a sleeping bag.

Cotton storage bag and a compression stuff sack:

Blanket Fold for comfort and temperature regulation:

Thermo Gills to tune the ventilation and inner temperature for your taste:

Bottom zippers offer even further ventilation adjustment. That's why these bags are also perfect for summer - there's always something you can do to increase the air flow inside when you feel too hot:

Also as you see, all bags are left zippered.

Integrated pillow pocket: This Nemo Fillo Inflatable Travel Pillow is compatible with this pocket so if you prefer buying this one you don't have to worry about its fit.

Integrated stash pocket. Perfect if you like spending time with your smartphone right before sleeping:

A very well thought out feature I like: Bottom of these bags are more waterproof (waterproofing isn't black and white! Some fabrics are more waterproof than others and vice versa). 

Because of this fact, while sleeping, your feet (the closest body part to this highly wet part of tent) is always more prone to get damp and hence this more waterproof design around that area:

If you're a cold, side (or tummy) sleeper looking for a backpacking sleeping bag, these designs are for you. Don't get a regular mummy sleeping bag!

If you're also looking for an air mattress for camping, this post of mine can be a good read for you.

Conclusion

So, in short, if weight and packed size aren't huge concerns for you, absolutely get the Disco 15 (or Rave 15 for women). If the weight and size reductions are substantial for you, Riff 15 (or Jam 15 for women) would be a better choice. 

I wouldn't really recommend 30 F models for any of these bags.

Nemo Equipment Disco 15 Reg
Nemo Equipment Disco 15 Reg
(27)
Buy on Amazon
Nemo Rave 15 Reg Jade/Sea Glass
Nemo Rave 15 Reg Jade/Sea Glass
(16)
Buy on Amazon

Nemo Riff 15 Reg (Graphite/Magma)
Nemo Riff 15 Reg (Graphite/Magma)
(12)
Buy on Amazon
Nemo Jam Women's Down Sleeping Bag, 15 Degree, Regular
Nemo Jam Women's Down Sleeping Bag, 15 Degree,...
(7)
Buy on Amazon

Lastly, my other post how to sleep comfortably in a tent can be a good read for you.


I hope this review was helpful for you to understand which sleeping bag would be the best choice for your needs. Feel free to ask me any questions, provide feedback and I'll be happy to respond in the comment section below if it's within my knowledge. 

Thanks a lot for reading. Happy trails.

Filed Under: Gear Tagged With: backpacking, bag, camping, sleep, sleeping

Catch More Z’s: 10 Tips to Sleep Comfortably in a Tent

Last updated: April 19, 2022 by Canberk Koksal

  • Ryan Alston · April 2018

If you've ever been to gym, you probably notice that after a good night's sleep you feel amazing - motivated and stronger. The other days you feel lazy, weak and demotivated.

When you're in the classroom or busy with your job, after a night with a quality sleep you find your creativity, comprehension and persistence regenerated.

That's because a very large portion of how our body and mind functions on a given day is highly dependent on our sleep quality the previous night.

That's why it's crucial to get a quality sleep, and it's even more crucial to get a quality sleep while hiking to enjoy our time outdoors to its fullest.

And although sleeping in a tent will always be less comfortable than sleeping in a bed, there are things that you can do to improve your sleep quality.

  • Experiment

As the study conducted by University of Colorado in 2017 [1] concluded, sleeping in a tent once in a while can actually be beneficial and help you arrange your circadian rhythm [2] as melatonin hormone [3] produced a few hours earlier than it does at home due to the absence of artificial light.

For some people sleeping in a tent for a few days can be the answer they're looking to improve their overall sleep quality.

We highly recommend you to implement at least some of these 10 tips to sleep better in a tent.

Table of Contents
1- Find a flat and soft ground
2- Mind the sunrise direction
3- Stay warm inside the tent
4- Stop drinking anything at least 4 hours before bed
5- Stop drinking caffeine at least 8 hours before bed
6- Bring earplugs
7- Wear dry clothes
8- Avoid overdressing
9- Bring pillow
10- Prevent insects


1- Find a flat and soft ground

In our daily lives we always sleep on our soft, flat beds, so we're unaware of its importance on a quality sleep.

If you're not able to find a flat surface, simply pitch your tent on the minimally inclined surface. Align your sleeping pad with your feet facing downhill.

If you're not able to find a soft surface and you don't have a sleeping pad, consider laying some pine needles beneath your tent for a softer base. 


2- Mind the sunrise direction

We all know this feel...

Don't get me wrong. When I'm camping I love waking up at 6 am to watch the sunrise. But if I'm too tired, went to bed too late, or have other plans for the next day, to get a better sleep I always make sure the sun will not hit me in the morning.

Simply choose a tent site accordingly and/or bring eye mask.


3- Stay warm inside the tent

If you pack a heater, use it.

If you don't, learn how to heat a tent without electricity before you hit the trail.

  • A great tip

When I was in Gothenburg, Sweden a few months ago, I stumbled upon some very cool hand warmers in an outdoors store called Naturkompaniet. I've never actually used them but people are very, very pleased with most hand warmers. I'd definitely recommend thinking of investing in one such as HotHands Hand Warmers on Amazon. You can obviously place them anywhere you'd like while sleeping except your torso as explained before.


4- Stop drinking anything at least 4 hours before bed

Waking up in the middle of the night to pee interrupts your sleep cycle and lowers sleep quality. Whether you're sleeping in a tent or not, you might want to consider why is it happening [4] and what can you do about it [5]. For me, 4 hours is the limit to make sure my sleep won't be interrupted. 

Nevertheless, I do prepare my shoes ready just in case as if I'll wake up and pee at night, and I recommend you the same.


5- Stop drinking caffeine at least 8 hours before bed

A study published by Journal of Clinical Sleep Medicine in 2013 [6] observed the effects of caffeine taken 0, 3 and 6 hours prior to bed. What they found is that even before 6 hours, caffeine still has disruptive effects on sleep although the participants didn't notice its effect before going to bed.

For a better sleep, you probably would better stop caffeine intake at least 6 hours before bed.

I tried what works for me and figured that I sleep better when stick to a 2 o'clock caffeine cut off.


6- Bring earplugs

If you haven't slept in a tent before, I strongly recommend you to try sleeping without ear plugs because some people (including me) swear by it. It's always better than sleeping at home for me.

  • Looking for a 3P tent?

If you're looking for a three season, 3P tent, make sure checking out our Marmot Limelight 3P vs Tungsten 3P post. Yes, these are 3 person tents - which is, as always, perfect for 2 person and very tight for 3 person.

But I understand that sleeping with the sound of nature isn't for everyone. Just in case you don't like it, definitely bring earplugs to sleep in perfect silence.


7- Wear dry clothes

Hiking and camping require you to be active. Walking with your backpack, pitching your tent and unpacking can tire and make you sweat more than you think. You definitely won't be sleeping well with wet, stinky clothes, so it's important to make a habit of changing right before bed. 


8- Avoid overdressing

Wearing a jacket or double sweaters inside the sleeping bag actually inhibits its ability of trapping sufficient heat inside and keeping your warmer.

  • Looking for a backpacking sleeping bag on a budget?

Check out the post of OutdoorEN for budget sleeping bags.

So instead, go for medium thick nightwear.


9- Bring pillow

If you haven't tried it before, you'd be surprised how uncomfortable it is to sleep without a pillow. A pillow doesn't provide your head a soft surface only, but it also adjusts your head height from ground to a level that you're used to and comfortable with. 

Although inflatable pillows are perfect for camping and I highly recommend investing in one, there are [7] other creative ways to DIY.


10- Prevent insects

If insects freak you out, you must make sure not to see them when/if you wake up in the middle of the night. You can waste rest of the night awake trying to convince yourself that you can get rid of all of them only to end up completely sleepless and literally ruin your hiking/camping experience. We can't let this happen. 

The easiest and most effective way to prevent them, in most cases, is applying DEET [8] on your skin. If you want longer protection, go with a repellent with higher percentage of DEET. There are DEET products out there up to 10 hours of protection from insects (NOT mosquitoes only).

Filed Under: Pro Tips Tagged With: hiking, sleep, tent

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Hey, what's up? Canberk here. I try to approach outdoor gear from a scientific point of view. Here's more about me.

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